PA Jeeps
PA Jeeps Club Forum => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joe86CJ7 on August 20, 2011, 10:04:34 pm
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does anyone know what it would take to get this law changed, I think it is pretty ridiculous, most of the cops in my area don't even bother you when your doors are off, but there is a few that think they have to push it. I mean hell you can ride a motorcycle without a helmet but you can't drive a Jeep without the doors that are meant to be removed. If anyone know what it would take to take care of this and would be interested in fighting it you can count me in!
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Write to your congressman and express your feelings.
http://www.ufwda.org/write-your-congressman/
Other than that, I'm not sure where we would start to get something like that changed, since it probably falls under state inspection laws across the country. Does anyone know if UFWDA ever tried to lobby for this change?
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only cj and earlier are exempt from the door law , as they were the only ones not offered with doors. yj's , tj's, and jks are just like xj and zj, doors are equipped and you do not get them with out them from factory. thats why they can fine you, weve been through this the whole way through the system, with this one and a few other mindless laws.
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Doors for CJ7's and 8's were an option ;D.
175.77. Body.
(f) Doors. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with doors of a type used as original equipment. The doors shall open and close securely unless the vehicle has been manufactured or modified to the extent that there is no roof or side. Tailgates, except on vehicles where the tailgate gives access to the passenger compartment, may be replaced with wood planking, nets or other material that will prevent loss of load. Tailgates may be removed when optional equipment, for example a truck camper, is added.
175.80. Inspection procedure
(4) Check the door operation, including the tailgate, and reject if one or more of the following apply:
(i) The doors, except a tailgate on a pick-up truck, are not on the vehicle if originally fitted by the manufacturer.
(ii) The doors, including the tailgate, do not open and close securely, unless the vehicle has been manufactured or modified to the extent that there is no roof or side.
(5) Check outside mirrors and reject if one or more of the following apply:
(i) The mirror is cracked, broken or discolored.
(ii) The mirror will not hold adjustment.
(iii) A vehicle does not have rearview mirrors as originally equipped by the manufacturer.
(iv) Outside rearview mirrors, with a minimum reflective surface as described in § 175.68 (relating to mirrors), are not installed on both sides of the vehicle if a certificate of exemption for a sun screening device or other material has been issued by the Department. See § 175.264 (relating to mirrors). A vehicle for which a certificate of exemption has been issued for medical reasons may be equipped with only a left outside rearview mirror, unless originally equipped with an outside rearview mirror on both sides of the vehicle.
(v) The mirrors, if originally so equipped, are missing.
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§ 4107. Unlawful activities.
(a) VIOLATION OF VEHICLE EQUIPMENT STANDARDS.-
(1) It is unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, lease, install or replace, either separately or as part of the equipment of a vehicle, any item of vehicle equipment affecting the operation of the vehicle which does not comply with this title or regulations promulgated thereunder, or which does not comply with an applicable Federal motor vehicle safety standard adopted by regulation by the department.
(2) Any person convicted of violating this subsection shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $ 100 for each violation. Each violation of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a separate violation with respect to each motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment or with respect to each failure or refusal to allow or perform an act required thereby, except that the maximum civil penalty shall not exceed $ 10,000 for any related series of violations.
(b) OTHER VIOLATIONS.-It is unlawful for any person to do any of the following:
(1) Willfully or intentionally remove (other than for purposes of repair and replacement) or render inoperative, in whole or in part, any item of vehicle equipment which was required to be installed at the time of manufacture or thereafter upon any vehicle, by any law, rule, regulation or requirement of any officer or agency of the United States or of the Commonwealth, if it is intended that the vehicle be operated upon the highways of this Commonwealth unless the removal or alteration is specifically permitted by this title or by regulations promulgated by the department.
You ever end up in court, here is your defense. Your Honor, when I was off roading the doors were damaged, and they are at the body shop, and I had to get to work, this is my only ride!
Skip
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so if doors were an option on a CJ by the law you do not have to have them on, because they are not original equipment you are not altering anything by taking them off. That is what I am understanding. where could I get written proof that doors were an option on CJ's that way if I get pulled over I could shove it in the cops face, don't get me wrong I am not a break every law kind of guy but there are a few of these B.S. laws that Pa has. Most of the cops around here don't care but we have a certain few that think they are super cops and have to push dumb laws like this instead of fighting real crime.
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so if doors were an option on a CJ by the law you do not have to have them on, because they are not original equipment you are not altering anything by taking them off. That is what I am understanding. where could I get written proof that doors were an option on CJ's that way if I get pulled over I could shove it in the cops face, don't get me wrong I am not a break every law kind of guy but there are a few of these B.S. laws that Pa has. Most of the cops around here don't care but we have a certain few that think they are super cops and have to push dumb laws like this instead of fighting real crime.
Joe:
Based on my research with vintage Jeeps, the only ones where doors and tops were an "option" were the early flat fender CJ's. Specifically" CJ2A, CJ3A, and CJ3B and some of the early CJ5's. Later CJ5's, CJ7's, and CJ8 Scramblers (AMC era) all were sold with doors and tops. I think you will be hard pressed to get around the law with any of the later CJ's.
Just my 2 cents! ;)
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When my 79' CJ was street legal I carried the origonal window sales sticker in the glove box. Clearly stated: Doors - "optional".
I believe in 1980 they became standard equipment.
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Latter CJs were sold with tops and doors as a "STANDARD DEALER OPTION" Trust me, arguing at street side with a LIO does not work.
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Options listed per the 1981 factory brochure for CJ-5 / CJ-7 “Soft top, soft top with Steel Doors (CJ-7 only), Molded hard top with Steel Doors (CJ-7 only)”
Most police officers don’t know the difference between a CJ-7, YJ or TJ much less what options a jeep came with. PA’s laws have a lot of gray area and the way they are interpreted, but I don’t think it’s worth going to court or disrespecting a police officer over. Write to your congressman tell them what you want , until then Tube doors and YJ half doors are cheaper than a ticket and are nice to have something to lean on when off camber.
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my favorite pa law, is youre not allowed to sleep on top of youre refrigerator. ;D