PA Jeeps

Land Use Office => Regional Issues => Topic started by: Rick_Bear on September 15, 2007, 08:42:49 am

Title: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Rick_Bear on September 15, 2007, 08:42:49 am
       The Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources, Bureau of Forestry announced a series of meetings seeking public comment on proposed revisions to the State Forest Management Plan.  It is important to participate, as input from these meetings will help define how Pennsylvania's 2.1 million acre forest system will be managed, including off-highway vehicle and other recreational activities.  For those that cannot attend written comments will be accepted until Oct 31.

To view the proposal click here -> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/update.aspx

All meetings begin at 7:00 PM and are expected to last until 9:30.  The meeting dates and locations are:
Sept. 18 - Renovo Elementary School, Renovo
Sept. 19 - Brady Township Community Center, Luthersburg (near Dubois)
Sept. 20 - Potato City Inn, Coudersport
Sept. 25 - Antiochian Village, Ligonier
Sept. 27 - The Inn at Reading, French Creek
Oct. 1 - Genetti Hotel, Williamsport
Oct. 2 - Holiday Inn/Dunmore, Scranton
Oct. 4 - Hotel Carlisle and Embers Convention Center, Carlisle

For more information and directions to each meeting venue clcik here -> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/public_meetings.aspx

To submit written comments online click here -> http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/comments.aspx

Comments will also be accepted through the mail at:
DCNR - Bureau of Forestry
State Forest Resource Management Plan Update
P.O. Box 8552
Harrisburg, PA 17105-8552
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Saharicon on September 15, 2007, 04:40:40 pm
it would be cool to be able to use fire trails and stuff like that.  A lot of other states let you. 
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on September 25, 2007, 08:50:47 am
WOW! Do you realize that the State Forest service is actually coming to us!!!

Well, not to us specifically, but that is because we might not be there. If you follow the above thread to the offiicial documents, you can read that the PA State Forest Service has implemented a customer feedback clause in their forest plan. That means every 5 years they need to hold public meetings before they can implement their strategic plan. THIS IS A GOOD THING! They are willing and have to listen to their customers (forest users like us). Now the best part is that we don't have to drive halfway across the state to participate. Actually, they are coming to a town near you. In fact, the two closest meetings are in Reading (Sept 27th) and Carlsile (Oct. 4th) and they are at 7 PM in the evening, so average working folks like us can attend.

I think we all need to try to make one of the meetings for two reasons:

1. Having the oppertunity to talk to the State Forest management organization is an excellent step in the right direction. We need to commend and support this change in the policy. Just being there sends the message that we are glad they are listening.

2. The State Forest Strategic Plan for 2007 doesn't have any provisions for developing OHV recreation in the future. None that I could find! So, that means that if we don't go and say anything, they will get the impression that we are happy with the current level of access to the State Forest trail system and nothing will change.

And the typical response is: well, why would they listen to me and even if they did, they're not going to do anything about it.
WRONG! There is actually significant spending in the plan allocated for developing ATV trail networks to the tune of $2 million. The ATVers did get that kind of support without sharing their needs and desires with the State Forest Service. We should be able to use the present set by the ATV development to fuel OHV development. But, there needs to be a start and we will only get the chance every 5 years. The roads and trails are there, we just want some access, but even if there is work to be done to open them, the State Forest Service has access to Federal money to do it.

Over my years of being a PA Jeeps member, I've been involved and even led trail rides in Sproul, Tuscarora and Michaux State Forests. The trails we found and enjoyed the most are now closed. This trend will continue unless we speak up.

I'm going to the Reading meeting Thursday night and I hope that most of the members in Lancaster Co. can join me since it is so close. It might be boring and long and we may not even get a chance to share anything, but if we are on record as being there, they have to acknowledge that we are a customer base that they need to take into account in their future planning.

If you are planning to attend a meeting, review/scan at least Appendix 9 on Recreation including most of the supporting documents so that you have an idea about what is going. Let me know via email (ddechri@yahoo.com) or by phone (I'm in the directory) if you plan to attend the Readinmg meeting so we can discuss what I found in the documents and what we should discuss while we are there. Getting there early would help also.

So, I'll step off the soap box and give someone else a turn to chime in. But before giving up I want to mention that even if you can't be at one of the meetings, send comments in by mail. At the beginning of the document, there is a mailing address to send public comments to. Actually, they are asking for comments. Do it now before you forget because the deadline is Oct. 31st.

Thanks for listening and I hope to see some familiar faces on Thursday.
- Dave DeChristopher
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on September 26, 2007, 08:34:11 am
63 views, still no action .... not even any excuses...

PA Jeeps mission reads:

"PA Jeeps Inc. is a local, non-profit, educational organization which strives to protect everyone's right to use public lands, not only for safe off-highway driving but also for hiking, horseback riding, camping, etc."

How much have we been working on these efforts lately?

(By"we" I mean the general membership. I know some of the officers are working on this stuff behind the scenes and I don't want to make light of their efforts.)
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Ebeck on September 26, 2007, 08:41:11 am
I have to admit that I missed it until the post in the events area.
It is important to remember that if we don't fight for public use, we may eventually no have anywhere to hold an event.

The activity around Paragon should serve as a wake-up call to all of us.

We need to make our presence known and be at these open forums.

I will be at one of these.
Most likely the carlisle meeting

I will let you know this evening
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Ebeck on September 26, 2007, 04:44:31 pm
I cleared my calender for the meeting next week in carlisle

There is two questions I would anticipate from the Bureau of Forestry

How can we assure that people who use the lands follow the Tread Lightly guidelines?

How do we maintain the roads/trails without creating extra burden/cost for the Bureau of Forestry?

We should go prepared to discuss these questions.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Rick_Bear on September 27, 2007, 07:04:23 am
Ebeck,

I wouldn't question "Others Treading Lightly"....Stress "WE" Tread Lightly
Rather than ask ways to releive the burden of maintanence, suggest that PA Jeeps & Middle Atlantic would entertain the offering of "FREE" labor in return for access.

ALWAYS ASK FOR MORE...

BTW- Thank you for making time to attend. I work second shift and am unable to attend any meetings, but have submitted my requests in writing.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on September 27, 2007, 07:33:48 am
Excellent Ebeck, I'll let everyone know how the meeting goes so any preparations can be made for the next one.

To answer your questions, the example already exists: the ATV community (and the snowmobile users).

The ATV user group has all the exact same management issues:

1. How do you police the users
2. How do you fund the maintenance
3. Where are the use guidelines

And in the forest planning, they have addressed them as best tehy could:

1. Policing the users - instead of trying to keep people off the trails they don't belong on (renegades), the ATV development looks and improving the trail system so that it is attractive enough (challenging, enough miles) that there is no need to be where a rider doesn't belong. There are even guideline on difficultly level and what percentage of each level there should be.

2. Funding - much of the funding comes from ATV license fees. Another big chunk comes from Federal money for trail development which is designated for motorized recreational development. For us, be don't have specific license fees that go solely for recreation, but the Fed money applies for OHV also. I think this was part of the SIMS Trail Act.

3. There was a ATV usage guided developed as a result of the 2003 strategic plan. There is also a shared use Trail Etiquette guide which was developed and includes interaction among hikers, hunters, snowmobilers, wildlife, and ATV riders.

So, the precedent on how to handle these issues is already there. I just needs to applied to or include OHV users.


I re-read the recreation document and some of the sub documents in preparation last night. I really get the overwhelming feeling that these public meeting are meant to get feedback from the users and potential users. I can only guess that when they changed their focus to be more customer based (like industry) the OHV community was too busy with private land to voice any interest. That is the only way I can explain that there is no mention of OHV and 4x4 usage in any of the 2007 plan. I found one reference at the begining of the manual of trail signs, but that was it. So, I'm curious what their current policy is towards OHV and then I hope we can give them some direction as to where we would like it to go. The bottom line is that the trails are already there, is a matter of developing the plan for managing their usage.

Hopefully we can learn some things from this meeting and send a delegation to the Carlisle meeting.

SO, EVERYONE SHOULD BE CLEARING THEIR CALENDERS IN ANTICIPATION OF BEING PART OF A DELEGATION NEXT THURSDAY. In fact, lets start a list in the Events forum Thread of who is coming.

- Dave
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on September 27, 2007, 07:48:36 am
I posted on the Blue Mountain Jeep Alliance Forum yesterday to try to drum up more interest. They already had a State Forest use thread going but there wasn't much mention of the meetings.

But someone did post this response:

_________________________________________________________________________
I attended the DCNR meeting in Ligonier last night... just to let you know how it works...

There were a BUNCH of DCNR folks there... one guy did about a 45 minute powerpoint presentation. Then there was a break & everyone split into groups at tables.... this was determined by a number that was in your informational folder you recieve when you sign in at the door.

At the table they had two DCNR representatives & it was a round table discussion, each person at the table got their chance to make a statment about one particular topic related to the DCNR. One of the DCNR guys wrote down the main jist of the statement (he read it back to you to make sure he had it right). It went around the table many times (I think it went around probably 8-10 times).

Once all the comments were taken, the DCNR guys asked if we could collectively work on a summary of the main issues that were discussed at the table. After that, a DCNR rep of each table stood up one by one & stated the main issues that were discussed at each table (which was interesting to hear the similarities/differences).

The point is.. your voice will be heard.. will it make a difference SOON...? Hmmm.. I didnt get that feeling, but the DCNR has stated that they are going to have updates to their "plan" every 5 years (vs. every 15 years before 2003)...

Oh.. and the presentation was pretty interesting, just in general, and fwiw.. I didnt get out of there until around 10 PM.

Mel
_______________________________________________________

So, there you go, everyone gets a chance to speak. The more we send, the more individual messages we send. That might mean the sooner something gets implemented.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: 04RckyMtn on September 27, 2007, 11:38:12 am
The link to email comments also works just fine. I encourage more people to voice thier opinons as well. It took me all of 10 minutes to voice my opinon. Hopefully we get enough of a response so the state can accomidate us with more land usage.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on September 28, 2007, 01:40:52 pm
It was exactly as Mel described: about 20 or so Forestry Folks, and maybe 40 guests. Grant and I were only ones representing 4x4 recreation. That was discouraging.

We got there 30 min. early and it was easy to wander around and talk to several of the DNCR staff about the plan and anything else. They were very friendly and most were enjoying the meetings as a chance to reach out to the public and understand it's needs.

I learned a lot even before the meeting started by just talking to people. The 45 min. presentation was good background for why the Bureau of Forestry (BoF) does what it does and what all their goals and requirements are.  It's a tough job.

The round table meeting were educational in understand other user groups interests and struggles. Lots of discussion, we had some Q&A with the forestry guy at our table on a whole host of topics.

The evening went fast because there was so much to digest. I highly recommend if you can make to any of the meetings it is well worth the effort ... and the publicity for 4x4 recreation. If fact, I had to explain to our table's facilitator what organized 4x4 is. Imagine that?

When I asked questions about getting involved, I was told about the Advisory Committes and their meetings. There is one for ATV and Snowmobiles, but 4x4 is lumped into the general committee. Their meetings are open to the public where anyone can log comments, etc.

I made a contact with someone from the Divisions of Operations and Recreation and I hope to do more digging and get involved.

Whether you can or can't get to the meetings, email in some comments about for the BoF is currently handling 4x4 trails on State land. Unless our feed back is a large portion of the recreational interest, nothing may happen. In fact, I did some digging on the DNCR website and found the comments from the last set of public meetings. One of the first statements in the summary was that 60% of the public feedback was related to OHV. Then I read further to find out it was all negative about abuse, noise and illegal running. Then I read that it was actually ATV's that were being targeted. So, now there is an extensive management plan for ATV's including openning up trails and parks, publishing guideline and etiquette brochures, etc. But as I mentioned above, it may not be really clear who we are and what we would like to do.

When you write in (not if):

- Suggest that a 4x4 usage survey be performed. One each was done for ATV and Snowmobiles and it really gives the DCNR direction on how to target their management plan.

- Request that an Advisory Council for 4x4 be created or that 4x4 be added to the current ATV & Snowmobile Council so that there is a focus on 4x4 development and planning.

- Of course request that existing trails be openned which would be less cost intensive that building new trail systems.

- Added some local economic impact evidence of developing 4x4 recreation.

- Mention that we are organized 4x4 enthusists, interested in providing the resources for future enjoyment and willing to adhere to the guidelines that are developed.

Here's the link for comments:
http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/comments.aspx

Anyway, sorry it got so long, but it was a full evening.

- Dave
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: emgraz on October 01, 2007, 05:20:44 pm
Ok, so Dave, if I'm understanding correctly....since hubby and I cannot attend any of the meetings, if we get something together and e-mail it to the link you provided that works too???

I'm really upset that I cannot attend any of these meetings, but w/ work and school monday-thursday, there's really not much time for anything else....

thanks for keeping us updated on these important dates and issues!!!

Erica
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: CJ8Ted on October 01, 2007, 10:14:39 pm
Thanks Dave, I'm still trying to see what the 4th holds for me.
Ted
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Rick_Bear on October 01, 2007, 10:15:34 pm
Erica,

YES, you can use the email option as well as the "snail mail" process.
I submitted my issues and concerns via a written letter.

When doing so be sure to state that you are a member of MA & United and keep it professional.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: emgraz on October 01, 2007, 11:43:43 pm
Not a problem, I will write to voice our opinion and keep it professional, we certainly don't need anymore bad publicity towards our sport!!!

erica
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on October 02, 2007, 07:36:13 am
Yes, the email and snail mail comments all count. In fact, it would be best to write one for each of you instead of lumping them together. The only way major changes to their policy are going to happen is if we show some sort of majority in the public comments. That means numbers.

Everyone has to write in or we won't get anywhere!

- Dave
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: SteveTheFolkie on October 02, 2007, 12:22:16 pm
Interesting process, isn't it?  I've been involved in a few lobbying efforts in my dear, dim past (mountain bike access, restricting vehicles and horses from the Appalachian trail, trying to get dual sport motorcycles allowed on ATV trails, amongst others that have the potential to be a bit polarizing on a non-political forum) - and numbers do count.  From what I've observed, letters  (even if from a large number of people) that are NOT form letters delivered by hand to state representatives are more effective than either those sent by snail or electronic mail.  This personal touch puts a face (or faces) to a concern.

What doesn't seem to work:

Being obnoxious - for obvious reasons
Mass gatherings (they tend to attract negative press, except for the ABATE folks - not sure how they pull it off)
Profanity - again - it's obvious - if you want to ensure that you'll never get a meeting with your representative - swear at 'em or call them a dirty name.
Defiance of the law
Fudged statistics (data manipulated to prove your point, without defining your methodology and without the offer of your base (un-altered) data).

What does seem to work:

A professional attitude and appearance
A well prepared, brief presentation for the representative
Large numbers of letters
Letters from small business owners who are directly or indirectly impacted by the activity
Examples (best if in your presentation) of good you've done, on a group or individual basis, in the past (examples - planting trees in burned areas, erosion control projects, examples of supporting charitable organizations through your group)

When attending the meetings with the DCNR having notes from a meeting or meetings with one or more state representatives adds a bit more powder to your charge - the DCNR needs the legislature for funding - if they know or suspect you've got the "ear" of some state representatives you can use that for leverage -

Your personal party affiliation or support of the representative in question doesn't matter - all that matters is that you reside within their district - in fact - if you normally don't support a person BUT imply that their support in this matter just might sway you to supporting them in the next election - you might make an influential friend.

I'll be doing some research and letter writing - I'd love to drive my jeep off-road on DCNR lands (without staying on their designated roads) - but I just thought I'd share some of what I've learned over the years - maybe it'll help.

And keep in mind - these folks work for you - that's why they're "representatives" -

Steve
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Ebeck on October 04, 2007, 03:48:03 pm
Somewhat of a crisis has come up
I will not make the meeting tonight.

Sorry about the late notice.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on October 05, 2007, 11:24:53 am
Ebeck,

I understand, things come up. Make sure you write in and say you wanted to make the meeting.


Was anyone else able to make the Carlisle meeting to represent the club?
If not you better get those comments in. Any work I do for access will be in vain if there aren't numbers backing me up!


Steve,

Thanks for the thoughts. Based on what I have learned over the last week or two, I plan to take this further. Maybe I can get a progress update in the newsletter monthy. Since we don't seem to be getting support from the membership, I might need to look for some political backing. I think anyone can see the access given to ATV and snowmobiles and scratch their head why 4WD isn't included. Plus, the attitude at the meeting was that the BoF is looking for input. I want to make sure they get it. Then they can't blame us on the lack of progress. Send me your direct email and maybe we can combine our efforts. I know of at least two trails we used to wheel on that have been closed. Even if they have good reasons for teh closure, they should replace them with other trails that are similar.

- Dave

Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: 04RckyMtn on October 06, 2007, 10:44:25 pm
I had a couple of thoughts about this on the way down to the Quadratec tent sale today. Has anyone included pictures of say the jeep show, or any of the big gatherings at Rausch(ie: crawl for the cure). Those numbers would speak volumes to amount of people this affect to the BOF. Also any kind of information that can be gathered by the amount of "tourist" ,for lack of a better word, dollars that are generated by these types of events. This type of info would be great because we can prove that our recreational activity also provides income to the state and local municipalities. If this organization of other 4wd club has letters from the state or local goverments for cleanup efforts or the like, those could included as well. That would speak to the fact that we as a group are already claiming responsiblity for our chosen recreation and would help with the self policing issues.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on October 08, 2007, 08:26:44 am
In at least one of my emails, I added links for the PA Jeeps, MAFWDA, UFWDA and recommended the BoF have some kind of presence at the new show. So, they should be able to get to the PAJEEPS website and probably this forum. I hope someone from the BoF is monitoring this thread.

Here is the response that was sent to Rick Bear and I based on the comments we sent in. It is interesting that while I didn't copy Rick on any of my letters, whoever is getting all the comments lumped the response together based on our affiliation. Which is good because that means they are getting read and looked at closely. WHEN YOU SEND YOUR COMMENTS IN, send me a copy or post it here. I'd like to keep track of the position we are presenting as a club.
__________________________________
Dear Mr. DeChristopher & Mr. Bear:

Mr. DeChristopher: This reply is follow-up to your conversation with Scott Rimpa, DCNR-Bureau of Forestry’s Recreation Section, and Kurt Leitholf, DCNR-Conservation and Recreation Advisory Council’s Executive Director; and,

Mr. Bear: This reply is follow-up to your inquiry letter to the DCNR-Bureau of Forestry’s Resource Planning Section, both in regards to Off-Highway Vehicle and 4x4 trails on DCNR-Bureau of Forestry administered lands.

The DCNR-Bureau of Forestry has restricted mileage of Drivable Trail road class.  Drivable Trails are limited maintenance roads that are open to licensed motor vehicles.  The 435 miles of roads in this category (open to the public, are for use by licensed, registered, and inspected motor vehicles) typically receive limited use and are not recommended for low clearance vehicles.  Road maintenance is limited to the amount necessary to control soil erosion and sedimentation pollution.

    The following forest districts administer Drivable Trails:

         Buchanan State Forest, 23 miles
         Tuscarora State Forest, 25 miles
         Rothrock State Forest, 4 miles
        Bald Eagle State Forest, 86 miles
        Moshannon State Forest, 86 miles
         Sproul State Forest, 148 miles
         Tiadaghton State Forest, 6 miles
        Elk State Forest, 10 miles
        Tioga State Forest, 26 miles
        Weiser State Forest, 12 miles
         Loyalsock State Forest, 9 miles

This class of roads are in flux.  They can be closed to the public at any time due to negative environmental impacts and degradation. 

State forest roads, which are open to the public, are for use by licensed, registered, and inspected motor vehicles.  DCNR-Bureau of Forestry does not currently offer Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) trails.  However, private entities throughout Pennsylvania provide an avenue for OHV use.  If you have access to the world wide web, you may view a couple of web links to riding areas at: http://www.offroaders.com or http://www.enduro.4t.com/riding.htm .

If you would like additional information on the Bureau of Forestry’s Drivable Trail system, please contact the forest district you’d like to visit.  This contact information can be found at: http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/stateforests/index.aspx.  Thank you for taking the time to write about your concerns.

Matt Beaver
Recreation Section
Operations & Recreation Division
Bureau of Forestry
Department of Conservation & Natural Resources
______________________________________________________

It may not sound like it, but this is a good response to my some of my questions. It has the official tone it needs to when communicating with the public. The fact that 3 letters were responded to at once means this is probably our official contact for the issue. It indicates what is currently available, the status of what is available, and alludes to what the BoF position is as far as access and maintenance. It's a good start and I plan to respond back to it.

While I don't know what Rick's original comments where, it looks like there may be two different categories of vehicles here:

1. Street legal, registered, insured  - 4x4.
2. Non-street legal, registration/insurance questionable - OHV.

OHV can be confused with ATV in some of the BoF documents I have read. So be careful how you use that term.
At first, I am mostly interested in the 4x4 category. This is a large majority of the club and the type of trails we are most likely going to have or gain access to. At this point it is easier to deal with because PennDot already takes care of managing the vehicle end of it. Just for your information ATV's must be registered and the driver insured for it to use them on State Forest land. Plus, lets face it, the BoF is not going to cut a trail over a boulder ridge just for us. Plus, I'm not sure if I want them too.

I posted the trail mileage and forest location with reservation. I want to keep everyone in the know, but I don't want our reputation destroyed. If you go to check out these "drivable trails" make sure you are adhering to Tread Lightly! Also, make sure you're not driving a leaker!

Report back where you went and what you thought of it here. I'll start compiling a database which will help build our case.

Sorry, another long post, but it's a big, delicate issue and there's a lot of info to share.

- Dave
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Rick_Bear on October 08, 2007, 08:52:45 am
Dave,

I had made reference to both OHV & 4x4 access. I felt it best as not to exclude anything since "OHV" is utilize in much of their documentation. Obviously "4x4" access has a much better outlook than does "OHV".
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Ebeck on October 11, 2007, 11:52:27 pm
I will make sure I write in ASAP
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: FSJNate on October 15, 2007, 11:58:48 pm
I was talking to my Outdoor Recreation professor at Penn State and he said a big thing that helped the ATV cause was that the registering of ATV's created a source of money that could be used.  He said that if we were to propose some sort of yearly permit system to have access to trails, it might help influence the BOF to consider 4x4's more.  He also said that there are some people on the SNOWMOBILE AND ATV ADVISORY COMMITTEE (SAAC) who would support 4x4 recreation.  If we could find these persons, then maybe would could try to have a little backing from an already standing advisory committee.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Rick_Bear on October 16, 2007, 10:43:23 pm
Interesting point Nate. My third letter is beginning...
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on October 26, 2007, 07:57:12 am
The deadline for public input is almost upon us (Oct. 31st).

What have you done to help open up PA public land for 4x4 trail riding???

Last weekend, Grant, my brother Joe, and I went to Tuscarora S. F. and experienced some of the roughest miles of open "drivable trails" that they had to offer to us there. There were only a few that I wouldn't drive my Corolla on. In correspondance with one of the Assisant Foresters, he gave me this quote to use in my public feedback, "If it requires 4wd we generally close it to public access because of environmental concerns."

So that is it. Yes, PA state forest land is truely beautiful to see and experience, but if you want to need your 4WD you may as well go somewhere else according to their current policy. And it's not the Forester's fault, this directive is written into their management plan based on past abuse.

They (the Foresters) were very eager to hear what I thought and encouraged me to write in additional comments if I wanted that policy changed. He even hinted at a technical rock trail if the conservationalist wouldn't scream so loud. But they aren't going to change anything just for me. We as a recreational users need to express who we are and what we would like to responibly use our land for. Only the numbers will make a differnce in their direction for the future.

Remember, Oct. 31st is the deadline. Do your part for your sport.

Here's the link to submit your comments:

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/update.aspx

And remember they are just people doing their job too. They are listening, just tell them what you want, it's that simple.

- Dave
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Jeepnharleymomma on October 31, 2007, 09:44:58 pm
I did my duty. For some reason I don't make it to the bottom of the forum all the time to post ::)
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: emgraz on November 01, 2007, 05:56:29 am
Matt and I both sent in e-mails on monday, I forgot to send you guys a copy--my comcast e-mail doesn't save sent messages unless you physically click on "Save"....we got ours in tho...hope it helps!!!

Erica
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: Jeremy on November 02, 2007, 02:36:29 am
Emails were sent in on oct 30 here.  To reiterate personal letters mean much more than any petition or form letter. 
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: 92YJ on November 02, 2007, 05:04:12 pm


  For what its worth, myself and a few friends who also wheel got e-mails sent before the deadline.  I've been part of the campaign to keep trails at Moab open for the last few years and understand how important it is to let them know what we are thinking.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on November 07, 2007, 08:03:39 am
Thanks to everyone who contributed to the effort. I'll keep you posted if I get any additional responses from the BoF.

They certainly can't ignore us this go round.

- Dave
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on July 23, 2008, 08:29:31 am
BoF Follow-up:

Well, we offered a booth to the BoF at the 2008 Jeep Show, but it was gratiously declined. I asked them to consider the same offer for next year.

We had 3000 Land Use Surveys for PA printed up and attempted to distribute as many as possible at the show. We got 140 completed surveys at the show. There may have been only 300 left that were not distributed. They were stuffed in event programs in the goodie bags, stuffed in the spectator programs and pushed at the raffle table. The remainder went home with clubs and vendors for further distribution. I'm hoping many more will be mailed in once folks find them. If you still have yours, send it in!. With someones help, we may be able to get an electronic version on the web for other clubs to link into.

As far as checking out the current Drivable Trail system, I have made trips to Tuscarora (Oct '07) and Sproul State Forests (June '08) to experience the most challenging trails as recommended by those forest's rangers. We have found some enjoyable stock trails, but fewer miles than the BoF advertises. In many cases, the stock trails seem to be an access to a cabin versus a stand alone trail. We have a return trip to Sproul planned for late Oct. '08.  I am also contemplating a trip to Bald Eagle State Forest in early Oct. '08.

Many Thanks to all who helped get the surveys out at the Show.

- Dave
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on July 24, 2008, 07:47:06 am
I just read an interesting fact in the press release for the Rock Run ATV / Snowmobile recreation area (May 2007):

"Pennsylvania currently has 236,275 registered ATV owners and 43,497 snowmobile owners."

And we got 140 surveys back this weekend ....  No wonder they are not worried about closing us out.
Title: Re: PA State Forest Management Plan
Post by: ddechri on August 06, 2008, 09:13:17 am
Yesterday I got a summary of the public comments from the SFRMP Update meetings in the mail. That was kind of nice of them I thought. But when I read it, there wasn't much there. So, I went to the BoF website and found the full document. It's 39 pages long (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/forestry/sfrmp/Public_Comment_Summary_2007.pdf). I encourage you to read through at least the recreation section which is pages 3-13 just to understand the combined issues for all user groups. Out of ten pages, 4x4 or OHV as they are calling it is summarized mostly on page 13 and even then, itis lumped in with Dirt Bikes:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Off Highway Vehicles (OHV), Dirtbike-motorcross, and street legal motorcycles

The 2007 SFRMP Update Process generated numerous
comments from additional motorized sports groups interested in
seeking access to recreational opportunities on the state forest
system.

As a group, these public comment participants felt that
designating trail systems that could be available for their
pursuits and collecting registration fees from their use
represented a compatible and desirable addition to DCNR’s
outdoor recreation programming.

Frequently emphasized themes included:
• The generation of additional revenues to the agency and
positive economic stimuli to state and local economies
from increased utilization of existing recreational
infrastructure
• Willingness to cooperate with other user groups and the
agency to develop user guidelines and designated areas
that would align these pursuits to the overall goals and
constraints of the agency
• Perceived cultural and social value of increasing the
range of activities available to connect people to nature
and the out-of-doors
• Provide positive outdoor alternatives for youth that could
compete with indoor activities like video games

DCNR’s response to Comments Received on Recreational Issues:
Opportunities for Night Sky, OHV, and Street Legal Motorcycle
enthusiasts

The Bureau of Forestry will investigate the feasibility of identifying and
providing new locations for night sky viewing within the state forest system
and will try to consider ways to meet the expressed needs of this relatively
new user group.

Improved public use maps with clearer definitions for vehicular travel on
the state forest road and drivable trail system will soon be available to
better identify existing opportunities for OHV and street legal motorcycles
within the state forest system.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, the bottom line is they are going to make new maps so we have a better understanding of the existing trails that we aren't supposed to be on. The good news is I feel that captures the ideas I and other were trying to get across. The bad news is that our issues only rated a small mention compared to the efforts to capture the other user groups. At least we did better than the equestrians that got 2 sentences.

Of course this may have very much to do with the poor representation from 4x4 enthusiasts the public meetings.

The next round is in 2012 and by then we better be ready!